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KCI
Sept 21, 2004 13:50:21 GMT -6
Post by Maraxus of Keld on Sept 21, 2004 13:50:21 GMT -6
This is the closest thing to a competitive deck I've ever built. Feel free to offer up opinions, as well as suggestions for a sideboard if ever I should find myself taking it into a Type 2 tourney. 2x Ancient Den4x Great Furnace4x Seat of the Synod2x Tree of Tales4x Vault of Whispers4x Frogmite4x Disciple of the Vault4x Krark-Clan Ironworks4x Myr Incubator4x Goblin Charbelcher4x Pentad Prism2x Talisman of Indulgence1x Talisman of Dominance2x Pyrite Spellbomb2x Conjurer's Bauble4x Fabricate4x Thoughtcast2x Night's Whisper3x CondescendBasically the way the deck works is by using KCI to cast Myr Incubator and activate it as quickly as possible. Then I fish out all the lands from the deck, make a bunch of Myr tokens, and sacrifice them to play and activate Charbelcher for the win. Disciple is in there for several reasons. First, the deck is very creature-light and I need blockers for things like Raffinity. Second, I have lost several games when the opponent played their own Disciple and I lost life for every artifact I sacrificed. By putting them back in the deck I can take my opponent down with me. The Froggies are in there as pure blockers. The rest of the deck is designed to get my my Ironworks, Incubator, and Belcher as quickly as possible through card drawing with Thoughtcast and Night's Whisper, or Fabricating for the last artifact if needed. The Conjurer's Baubles are in there because they replace themselves in my hand and effectively shrink the size of my deck, letting me find what I need that much quicker. The Spellbombs, in addition to providing a hand replacement effect, also let me take out threats like enemy Disciples or the odd Frogmite or whatever. So yeah, any opinions would be most welcome.
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KCI
Sept 27, 2004 15:21:49 GMT -6
Post by Volrath, the Fallen on Sept 27, 2004 15:21:49 GMT -6
This is a very good deck. One of the fastest decks in our group i think (if not the fastest). Once it gets moving, its near impossible to win, unless of course you have some massive life gain early on.
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KCI
Sept 27, 2004 16:29:46 GMT -6
Post by Maraxus of Keld on Sept 27, 2004 16:29:46 GMT -6
It's not so tough if you know how to beat it. It requires certain things to go off.
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KCI
Sept 27, 2004 16:48:51 GMT -6
Post by Volrath, the Fallen on Sept 27, 2004 16:48:51 GMT -6
thats true. A well timed artifact destruction card would screw you. any mass damage thing wouldn't be good either. cough Pestilencecough
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KCI
Sept 27, 2004 18:20:42 GMT -6
Post by Maraxus of Keld on Sept 27, 2004 18:20:42 GMT -6
Basically this deck needs to have KCI, Belcher, and Incubator to go off. If necessary, it can usually go without the Belcher and either swarm with the tokens created by Incubator or possibly sac them and kill the opponent with Disciples. However, countering/bouncing/destroying the Ironworks will stop the deck cold, as well as knocking out the Incubator before I have the mana to activate it, although if I'm smart I won't play it until I can activate it the same turn.
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KCI
Oct 14, 2004 21:24:51 GMT -6
Post by Maraxus of Keld on Oct 14, 2004 21:24:51 GMT -6
If you guys want to see the Type 1 version of this deck, it's much nastier: Land: 4x Vault of Whispers2x Ancient Den2x Tree of Tales4x Seat of the Synod4x Great Furnace1x Tolarian AcademyArtifacts: 4x Pentad Prism1x Mana Vault1x Lotus Petal1x Mana Crypt1x Sol Ring1x Memory Jar4x Myr Incubator4x Goblin Charbelcher4x Krark-Clan Ironworks1x Conjurer's Bauble1x Mox Sapphire (proxy) 1x Mox Jet (proxy) Other: 4x Dark Ritual1x Demonic Tutor4x Thoughtcast1x Ancestral Recall (proxy) 1x Tinker4x Fabricate4x Force of WillSideboard: 4x Duress3x Disciple of the Vault4x Mana Leak2x Wing Shards1x Disenchant1x NaturalizeIf I'm playing somewhere I'm not allowed proxies (or if I'm playing casual, where I don't like to proxy) then I have maindecked the Disciples in place of the 2 mox and the Ancestral Recall. And I don't actually have the 4 Duress yet. Any recommendations? Specifically, I'm wondering if I should keep Academy in there. It provides a great boost if I draw it (it usually accelerates my win by at least one turn) but if I don't get it into my hand then it makes the Belcher stop, because I can't pull it out with the Incubator. As for my SB choices, here's my reasoning: DotV vs. Ravager affinity because if I don't, their Disciples kill me before I pull off the combo. This has been proven through testing, but if I have my own Disciples, then I can give as good as I get. Duress and Mana Leak are in there to break up combo decks. Sometimes FoW just isn't enough. Wing Shards is specifically in there for Tooth and Nail. If I can't counter the T&N for whatever reason, then I can kill off the attackers this way. It was a toss-up between this and Chainer's Edict, which is more splashable but only takes out one creature. Disenchant and its green cousin are in there simply for artifact-heavy decks, or anything with a key enchantment that it needs (like Food Chain). Overall, whatcha think?
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KCI
Oct 16, 2004 21:49:08 GMT -6
Post by Randomn on Oct 16, 2004 21:49:08 GMT -6
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KCI
Oct 16, 2004 21:50:09 GMT -6
Post by Volrath, the Fallen on Oct 16, 2004 21:50:09 GMT -6
but he'd also burn for infinitely
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KCI
Oct 16, 2004 21:52:44 GMT -6
Post by Randomn on Oct 16, 2004 21:52:44 GMT -6
no because he uses the 2 mana to play the other one, and you dont burn untill the end of the phase, which by then they are already dead.
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KCI
Oct 16, 2004 22:12:09 GMT -6
Post by Maraxus of Keld on Oct 16, 2004 22:12:09 GMT -6
I've seen the 2 Retriever idea, and I think if I were still running the original build of the deck that I had (kill with a big Fireball instead of Incubator and Belcher). However, the Disciples themselves are barely even useful in the Type 2 build of this deck anymore. They either get used to chump block, or they help give Raffinity as good as it gives with its own Disciples. And in the Type 1 version, DotV isn't even used. Also, in order to get the infinite combo, it requires KCI, 2 Retrievers, and a Disciple. That's 4 cards, and it's actually much harder to pull off than the combo I currently have in there.
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KCI
Oct 20, 2004 22:51:16 GMT -6
Post by Volrath, the Fallen on Oct 20, 2004 22:51:16 GMT -6
This deck is perfectly fine how it is. There really isn't much room for improvement if you want to keep it in a type 1 form. (although sideboarding some artifact destruction for Null Rod and Damping Matrix would be a good idea)
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KCI
Nov 4, 2004 23:29:16 GMT -6
Post by Maraxus of Keld on Nov 4, 2004 23:29:16 GMT -6
I am considering throwing in a single Goblin Cannon, but only for the Type 1 version of the deck. Tolarian Academy too often provides a premature stopping point for the Belcher, so Cannon might be more effective. I maintain, however, that it's unnecessary in the Standard version of the deck.
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KCI
Apr 7, 2005 10:57:54 GMT -6
Post by Maraxus of Keld on Apr 7, 2005 10:57:54 GMT -6
Well, this deck is no longer Standard legal, since WotC banned the artifact lands because of the completely unfounded fear that KCI would dominate after Ravager was taken out. Therefore, I am keeping this deck in the Type 1 build. And I now have 2 Goblin Cannons and 2 Charbelchers as the win conditions. Which one I use is determined by whether or not I draw Academy.
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KCI
Apr 7, 2005 15:27:50 GMT -6
Post by Volrath, the Fallen on Apr 7, 2005 15:27:50 GMT -6
this deck is scary fast. it has like an 85% win percentage against my tooth and nail deck. not too many people can say they have decks with that record. (except for Don. he has 100% but that was a fluke and he only played me once)
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KCI
Nov 10, 2011 2:35:37 GMT -6
Post by Maraxus of Keld on Nov 10, 2011 2:35:37 GMT -6
I deleted the entire conversation between me and Prick because it's no longer relevant, and because rereading them I got annoyed all over again. Also, one post by Chris chiming into the discussion on my side. Hope nobody minds. Anyway, I just learned that Crop Rotation was taken off the restricted list at some point, so I can now run 4 of them if I want to. I need to consider whether this is worth doing for this deck or not. At first glance the answer seems obvious since that would significantly improve my ability to get the Academy, but I might need to adjust my mana base as well, and I'm not sure how much change would be needed there.
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